Some Controversial Words About World Youth Day

Ever wondered why he never organised such gatherings as the WYD?

Ever wondered why he never organised such gatherings as the WYD?

Well, I must say it. Some of you won’t like it, but I have to say it.

Soon, countless parents will allow their daughters to fly to Rio, not only at great expense but also in the midst of countless hormone-laden boys; who might be Catholic (some of them certainly are; not very many, methinks) but are also boys.

One wonders whether the Pre-Conciliar church would have encouraged the gathering of minors in such big groups, without parental supervision, and actually with the usual feeling linked to being alone, young, and free, with adult supervision that must perforce be very defective – and I can only imagine how few of them care in the first place – on the other side of the planet. It truly astonishes one how the modern age refuses to think. *

In my age, parents refused permission to their daughters of eighteen or nineteen to even go out with the school for two nights, where a mistake would have branded them as sluts for all ages to come. They weren’t being “oppressive”, those parents; merely prudent, and using basic common sense. They instilled in their families a strong sense of propriety; of avoiding not only sin, but the occasions of sin.  Of doing what is right, and being seen as doing what is right. *

Well, I went to Wikipedia then, to see what is what. Turns out the first World Youth Day was promoted by Pope Blessed JP II in 1985. Definitely not a Church tradition, then.

How they managed before, is beyond me. All this youth without world youth day, how did the Church do proper evangelisation work? By teaching them the catechism..??

Nowadays, the post-conciliar church gives a plenary indulgence (difficult to obtain as it is, of course) to people sending their children without parental supervision the other side of the planet.

Verkehrte Welt.

Thankfully, the Pope will make an appeal asking the families not to send their children away at great expense, but to give the money to the poor instead. Which is only fitting, as there can be no expenses more dispensable than these ones…

Erm, no, wait… he didn’t! Can’t believe it. Can someone check, please?  

If you listen to me, you don’t send your daughter – or even boy; but particularly your daughter – to the world youth thingy.

Mundabor

* This, my dear reader, certainly does not apply to your daughter. I am absolutely sure your daughter is above suspicion, your boy is very well behaved, and you are merely enjoying the fruits of the very wise raising of your children. If something should happen, though, I hope you will not complain on my comment box.

Posted on July 11, 2013, in Catholicism, Conservative Catholicism, Traditional Catholicism and tagged . Bookmark the permalink. 37 Comments.

  1. The “Tradition In Action” site has always been against WYD. It has provided proof that the young people at these events are not properly supervised, not properly dressed, not properly behaved, and not properly taught the faith. For their pains, they have been branded ‘Pharisee’s’ by the Church of Nice types.

  2. radjalemagnifique

    Mundabor,

    This has nothing to do with your post, I would just like to ask you a favour. I have spent innumerable hours these last days to find an answer which you have made to one of my questions but I can’t find it any more. It was about grace. You wrote very late in the night a very extensive answer which I read with most interest and which I wanted to print later. And delaying the printing I can’t find the date now. I think it was during last June, but I looked also a bit before and a bit after. By typing the word “grace” in the search machine, I found only two posts which didn’t relate to the one I am looking for.

    I’m very upset in asking you to do this research for me as you probably have not much time left, seeing all the posts you write which ask for a great work of research for themselves. But I really want to get your text concerning the grace (it was also about Lutheranism and Jansenism) printed and saveguarded on my hard disk drive.

    Thank you very much in advance.

    Radja le Magnifique

    • It was about predestination. Try predestination. I remember using the words “physical premotion?”. Try googling that + mundabor. The post must have been one of those concerning the SSPX. I am underway now, if you have no success I will look when I can.

    • radjalemagnifique

      Thanks for your quick reply. In the meantime – the subject kept running in my head – I continued searching and found your answer (effectively speaking of predestination) in your post of July 2, “Leftist Magazine Spot on the Curia”.

      Radja le Magnifique

      P. S. May I suggest to my fellow readers who are interested in things like “predestination”, “graces”, “physical premotion”, “Calvinism” and “Jansenism” to have a look on these very fine explanations by Mundabor in his answer to my question of July 2 ?

    • Yes you can! I might write more one day, but it is difficult to deal with it in the space of a blog post.

    • radjalemagnifique

      Then publish it like a serial (“feuilleton”), part 1, part 2, part 3, etc. How did our orators of the past, especially the paramount Bossuet of 17th French Century deliver their sermons lasting at least two hours ? They divided them in several parts, announced in the introduction, and then developed them point per point. This rythm kept the assembly – no less than the French Court in the case of Bossuet, awake! Your contribution to the New Evangelization, who knows?

      Radja le Magnifique

    • I thought about that (I have written some posts in two parts in the past). I am also not new to writing dissertations, so it’s not that that scares me. But if one begins to go past the scope of a blog post, the most honest things I can do is to read the books directly: Garrigou-Lagrange will always give you more than any pale imitation I can give to you.

      M

    • radjalemagnifique

      That’s if you have nothing other to say than le père Garrigou-Lagrange of whom you made a post some weeks ago. I did’nt know about him before and tried to inform me a bit about him. But I’m sure you have personal considerations to add to Father Garrigou-Lagrange’s ideas (which I don’t know), coming from your own studies and experience. I write myself books (about medicinal herbs), and there are our great ancestors in this matter, like Albertus Magnus, Sainte Hildegarde, Nicholas Culpeper, and others, which I always mention to keep their teachings alive, but to which I add my personal observations and experiences (I grow much herbs in my garden and collect others in the wild), so that the knowledge be widened but still staying on firm ground, which has shown effective in the past. Also, my writing style is modern, and pleases the modern reader.

      You being kind of a UFO in the Catholic blogosphère (insert a smiley!), I’m pretty sure you could come up with a very personal and original way of presenting the matter.

      Radja le Magnifique

    • Ah, I am sure I could not add anything, but I could say it in a somewhat personal way (the example of the mother in the other comment is actually mine).

      Still, I suggest you read the original 😉

      Garrigou-Lagrange is God’s gift to Catholics.

      M

    • radjalemagnifique

      That was a good example, easy to understand. Easy because it’s obvious. But this obviousness had to be SAID.

      I’ll try to get a book of père Garrigou-Lagrange, thanks for the hint. By the way, do you know Thomas von Kempis, who wrote in the 14th century a book called “Von der Nachfolge Christi”? I had been given a copy from 1753 by an old Priest who said “this book is considered the most beautiful book written by man, after the Bible who has been written by God”.

      Radja le Magnifique

    • I know Thomas a’ Kempis and the “imitation of Christ”. One of those books now re-launched by the Internet.

      All principl books of Garrigou-Lagrange (in vernacular; he also wrote for theologians, directly in Latin are available on Amazon. Alas, mostly only in paper form.

      M

    • radjalemagnifique

      Thank you, Catocon. In the meantime, Mundabor has also answered to my quest. I take this opportunity to tell you that I appreciate generally your comments on this blog.

      Radja le Magnifique

  3. vermontcrank1

    Dear Mundabor. AMEN AMEN AMEN

    At one WYD (Denver, I believe) a big cardboard box containing scores of consecrated hosts were passed around and the Hell’s Angels (I am NOT making this up) grabbed them like they were potato chips, stuffed them in their mouths, and then washed them down with beer.

    The only Ecclesiastical traditions faithfully followed are the novel ones created post V2.

    Of course what you describe is a gigantic occasion of sin but such traditional concepts were vacated during and after V2 (you can not find any “negative” theology in the new mass; it was excised) and our epicene ecclesiastics refuse to acknowledge the differences between the sexes – both of whom have been so corrupted by Pornography (Jewish Owned) that decent males are routinely now seduced by predatory girls.

    Thanks, modernism. The havoc you wreak is unending

  4. Thank you! Only someone averse to thinking would consider granting a plenary indulgence as a reward for a serious–and potentially devastating–lapse of parental judgment. I honestly don’t know what the parents of these youth are thinking, other than perhaps what I’ve often heard, “Oh, well. They’re almost grown up, after all, and we can’t protect them forever. Better to let them go and tell them we trust them to do the right thing. We can give them some good advice (Polonius-style), but, heavens, we don’t dare imply that we don’t trust their character (even if it is only half-formed at that point). Our trust in them is their best safeguard against vice.”
    Unfortunately, it isn’t, and I can personally attest to that.

  5. vermontcrank1

    Dear Mundabor. See these links (there are more) about Jews controlling the porn industry

    http://www.culturewars.com/2003/rabbidresner.html

    http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38

    • Thanks VC,

      I wasn’t impressed by the first link, whose long essay takes the dominance of porn by he Jews rather as a given; though it also explains the obvious conflict with Judaism.

      I found the second link far more interesting, but note the second link speaks of “significant role” rather than “control”; in all cases, it appears desire for money and at most the desire (probably inflated) to show the longest finger to conservative America seem to be the main mover, as to be widely expected.

      Do you believe the one with the “girls (typically) from the Catholic school”? I don’t. It seems to me such articles are often written to talk about social phenomena invented for the occasion.

      In any way, it is clear we are in front of very secularised people, atheists with Jewish ancestors at most.

      I doubt there is one single Jew out there who feels proud Ron Jeremy is one of them.

      M

  6. Princeps militiae caelestis

    Being a Brazilian and knowing the Rio culture (very very liberal vs other areas of Brazil) , I am very scared of this WYD. Very affraid. The list of perfomers is the worst posible.

  7. When you witness the significant number of men and boys wearing baseball caps throughout these huge open-air Masses, you know the game is up.

  8. radjalemagnifique

    Now, to change a little bit the subject. Radio Notre-Dame (the French radio station of the diocese of Paris, very Francisphile) brought this morning the news that Pope Francis has been consecrated “Man of the Year” by the magazine Vanity Fair, Italian version (salute, Mundabor !). The pope makes the cover and is named « Pope Courage », especially for his statements about (Arabo-African) immigration on the island of Lampedusa. People as prominent as Elton John and Andrea Bocelli have given their appreciation of the new pope. Elton John : « Francis is a miracle of humility in a time dominated by vanity [mondanism] … » For Vanity Fair, a « revolution » is running with Francis who asked the priests « with words as heavy as stones, to be pastors having the smell of their sheep. »

    For the writer Giorgio Faletti, « Pope Francis has the qualities which take him apart from all the scandals which gave a bad image recently of the Vatican. » Concludes Radio Notre-Dame : « Understand by this the affairs of paedophilie and obscur financial business which Jorge Bergoglio is resolving right now, always with the simple firmness which caracterizes him now. » (I’m sorry about my translations, but I wanted to stick as close to the French quotations which are already a translation from the Italian original.)

    http://radionotredame.net/2013/vie-de-leglise/vanity-fair-francois-pape-homme-annee/

    Radja le Magnifique

  9. Dear Mundabor, I read with interest your comments about Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange as “God’s gift to Catholics.” When I was studying theology the dominant names were Rahner, Lonergan, deLubac, Congar, (and the incomprehensible Schillebeeckx) among others. I always had this nagging feeling that it all didn’t sit quite right with Catholic tradition and I think what has transpired in recent decades has shown that is was all rather flawed. Pope Benedict seemed quite taken by the “nouvelle theologie” and stated his admiration for Von Balthasar. Am I right in thinking that Garrigou-Lagrange was solidly situated in the Thomist tradition and the ignoring of his school of thought really in the longterm was a disaster for the Church, so that we ended up with a theology that was all over the place and ultimately undermined it as a sacred science? I contend that most people coming out of theological institutes today are really only ‘mickey-mouse theologians’ – churning out books that read more like just a string of personal preferences rather than the serious science as found in the manuals and tracts. I know this may sound terribly old fashioned but any serious science even in the natural realm has its textbooks and formal structure – that seems to be all but abandoned in this contemporary free for all. You have prompted my interest in Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange and I think its time to take a serious look. Thanks.

    • You are absolutely right. G-L was a sworn enemy of the Nouvelle Theologies. God allowed him the grace to die before VII.

      You will enjoy his books immensely. Don’t delay, order today… 😉

      M

  10. Very sensible post. I hadn’t even thought of it but object to going for other reasons.

  11. Mundabor

    Brazilian “Christoteques” for de New Evangelization…

    http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/documents/detail/articolo/rio-cristoteca-16695/

    Eucharistic Adoration at Christoteque, I don’t have words for this video.. just wanna cry..

  12. The one thing that comes to my mind is this: when I was a newbie “revert” to the Faith, I attended some different “youth” gatherings (not WYD, but somewhat relevant idea).

    It was marked under Orthodoxy, and they had music, Mass, singing, adoration, etc.

    I overlooked the guitars (at least they did not use them during the Mass), and most people there were pretty serious about their faith.

    However, after having spent time at gatherings organized by traditionalist groups (not many, but a few) I can see where such youth events are just lacking by a long shot.

    When one considers the types of retreats and gatherings the Church COULD organize, versus what it does, it seems like the WYD organizers mean well but unfortunately do not provide anywhere near what they could – and thus really pack in some strong graces.

    And I agree, with a bad culture, it could be a disaster on many personal levels.

    • I will be blunt: it’s pure marketing and feel-good-ism, sprinkled with an extreme desire of being “modern” and “relevant”.

      Again, I am awaiting for the Pope’s appeal to give the money to he poor instead.

      M

    • Yes, that is the feel that I did get. While it was enjoyable to some degree at the time, it did also feel like it was trying to put something into a box – our faith into a box of “cool youth.” But our faith does not need to act like someone else to be cool – it just needs to be itself and then it will really “shine” (If I can use that word).

  13. Mundabor – thank you very much. As a Catholic young man, whom, I suppose, is supposed to be enthused with this sort of thing [I have never thought of myself as ‘youth’], I have no intention of attending a World Youth Day. They seem to be to be thoroughly Modernist, grossly irreverent (what Mr. Evelyn Waugh wonderfully described as ‘the noisy Mass’) and soaked through with the anarchistic, ‘hippie’ and degenerate ‘youth culture’ which began to attack Christendom in the ’60s. As I see it, they are flatly proximate occasions of mortal sin (if the account of gross sacrilege and blasphemy permitted against the Sanctissimum is true or not). I don’t think a girl should stay away from her home at all, for much the same reasons you have said.

    By contrast, I’m arranging to go into a monastery on retreat, or perhaps to one of the pilgrimages, processions and events organised by the Latin Mass Society. I am sure in either case I shall see piety, reverence and sound Catholic devotion.

  14. radjalemagnifique

    Pope Francis on cover of Vanity Fair Magazine

    A German blog has also related the story. Please see the link. I won’t translate the few words, my fellow readers would please remember their elementary German lessons. If they hadn’t, I think the images are speaking for themselves.

    http://www.geistbraus.de/2013/07/sudamerika-franzl-ist-vanity-guy-des-jahres/

    This about the author of the blog:

    Martin Johannes Grannenfeld, geboren Anfang der 80er Jahre, aufgewachsen als Protestant in einer katholischen Kleinstadt, 2006 nach langer Odyssee durch evangelische, katholische, orthodoxe, liberale, konservative, fromme, unfromme, engstirnige, weitsichtige, intelligente und intelligenzfreie Gruppierungen schließlich in Berlin am altrituellen Institut St. Philipp Neri zum Katholizismus konvertiert. Arbeitet als Blogger, Autor, Laientheologe, Zeitgeistphilosoph, Mystiker und Scharlatan. Lebt in der katholischsten Stadt Deutschlands, Berlin.

    My comment : Take this in the second degree (Berlin oblige!), but not the blog texts themselves.

    Radja le Magnifique

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