A Request To My Readers

Dear readers, I kindly ask you to use the comment box of this post to make the following:

1. Post a quotation, or quotations, of the passage or passages of the 12,000 Words interview that you find problematic, or disturbing, or questionable.

2. State in two words (three will be fine…) why you were negatively surprised by the quote.

3. Post the link to the source.

4. If you found something you found beautiful or very well said, please mention it too. Heavens, it can't have been 12,000 words of rubbish; though I understand this is Jesuits talking to a Jesuit, so the risk is there.

Please post only direct quotations of Francis' words. We are not interested in what the press extracts or infers from his words (I have read a couple of very wild things), but only in his very words.

Also, please do not comment here on anything else.

As here we are, apparently, confronted with a massive attack on Catholic sanity – though in what I have read up to now I have found, oh joy, nothing that would constitute, to my knowledge, an heretical statement – instead of the usual one or two headline-grabbing, popularity seeking exercises, the best thing to do is to dissect the corpse of the rotten mentality of this disturbing man and use it to affirm with as much clarity of thinking as we can muster the beauty and sanctity of Catholic teaching.

Which should, think of it, be the job of a Pope.

Pray for him, too. Pray for him.

Mundabor.


Posted on September 20, 2013, in Catholicism, Conservative Catholicism, Traditional Catholicism and tagged . Bookmark the permalink. 15 Comments.

  1. “Thinking with the church, therefore, is my way of being a part of this people. And all the faithful, considered as a whole, are infallible in matters of belief, and the people display this infallibilitas in credendo, this infallibility in believing, through a supernatural sense of the faith of all the people walking together. This is what I understand today as the ‘thinking with the church’ of which St. Ignatius speaks.”

    Infallible faithful??

  2. What Old Evangelization said!

  3. “Yes, there are hermeneutics of continuity and discontinuity, but one thing is clear: the dynamic of reading the Gospel, actualizing its message for today—which was typical of Vatican II—is absolutely irreversible.”

    Mutant propter mutationem!

  4. ” The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent ”

    All are binding !

    JMJ,

    George Brenner

  5. http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

    A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’

    “Vatican II produced a renewal movement that simply comes from the same Gospel. Its fruits are enormous. Just recall the liturgy. The work of liturgical reform has been a service to the people as a re-reading of the Gospel from a concrete historical situation. Yes, there are hermeneutics of continuity and discontinuity, but one thing is clear: the dynamic of reading the Gospel, actualizing its message for today—which was typical of Vatican II—is absolutely irreversible

    If the Christian is a restorationist, a legalist, if he wants everything clear and safe, then he will find nothing. Tradition and memory of the past must help us to have the courage to open up new areas to God. Those who today always look for disciplinarian solutions, those who long for an exaggerated doctrinal ‘security,’ those who stubbornly try to recover a past that no longer exists­—they have a static and inward-directed view of things. In this way, faith becomes an ideology among other ideologies. I have a dogmatic certainty: God is in every person’s life

    +++++++++++++++ end quotes ++++++++++++

    The Vicar of Christ is ostentatiously extending his hands of welcome to sodomites while he back-hands traditionalists and repeatedly tells them he has no time for them or patience with them.

    He has rhetorically excommunicated us because we hold fast to Tradition and for this Vicar of Christ, Tradition is a legalism of the past.

    His disparagement of a pellucid Faith capable of being understood by even the young (Catechism of Council of Trent, Catechism of Pope Saint Pius X, Baltimore Catechism, The Penny Catechism etc etc ) is disturbing in the extreme.

    This interview is an extended confession of a radical but it comes with neither contrition or purpose of amendment, rather, it lays out the insanely evil program for his Papacy.

  6. St. Benedict's Thistle

    “If the Christian is a restorationist, a legalist, if he wants everything clear and safe, then he will find nothing. Tradition and memory of the past must help us to have the courage to open up new areas to God. Those who today always look for disciplinarian solutions, those who long for an exaggerated doctrinal ‘security,’ those who stubbornly try to recover a past that no longer exists­—they have a static and inward-directed view of things. In this way, faith becomes an ideology among other ideologies.”

    One of several attacks on orthodoxy in the interview.

  7. quiavideruntoculi

    “A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’”

    Saith the Lord: Jacob I have loved; Esau I have hated.

  8. These quotations are from “A Big Heart Open to God”, published in America magazine.
    http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

    The interview reminded me of Rousseau’s “The Creed of a Savoyard Priest”, and what worries me is that the Bishop of Rome is a Rousseau-like romantic.

    The romantic, the self-confessed sinner, the artist, the melodramatic performer, enjoys the thrill of working with his audience. But Rouseau was a dangerous revolutionary, apparently a natural mystic, but actually a sentimental materialist. Not someone who would make a good pope.

    Quotations:
    1. A Jesuit must be creative.
    2. The mystical dimension of discernment never defines its edges and does not complete the thought. The Jesuit must be a person whose thought is incomplete, in the sense of open-ended thinking.
    3. I am a really, really undisciplined person.
    4. I completed the program, but in an unstructured way—that is, not ordered according to what we expected in the beginning, but in an order that came naturally by reading these authors. And this mode befitted me.
    5. After all, in every age of history, humans try to understand and express themselves better. So human beings in time change the way they perceive themselves.
    6. But the proclamation of the saving love of God comes before moral and religious imperatives.
    7. A contemplative attitude is necessary: it is the FEELING that you are moving along the good path of understanding and affection toward things and situations. Profound peace, spiritual consolation, love of God and love of all things in God—this is the sign that you are on this right path.
    8. I have a dogmatic certainty: God is in every person’s life. God is in everyone’s life. Even if the life of a person has been a disaster, even if it is destroyed by vices, drugs or anything else—God is in this person’s life. You can, you must try to seek God in every human life. Although the life of a person is a land full of thorns and weeds, there is always a space in which the good seed can grow. You have to trust God.
    9. My choices, including those related to the day-to-day aspects of life, like the use of a modest car, are related to a spiritual discernment that responds to a need that arises from looking at things, at people and from reading the signs of the times.

  9. “Here, human self-understanding changes with time and so also human consciousness deepens. Let us think of when slavery was accepted or the death penalty was allowed without any problem.”

    With all due respect, the Death Penalty was permitted by God (Old Testament) and the Doctor of the Church St. Aquinas argued lawfully for the case of the Death Penalty, so did St. Augustine. The comparison between the toleration of slavery in society and lawfully slaying a threat does speak volumes, in that the bondage of man in chains is somehow comparable to the execution of a murderer.

    Which leads on to a comment about the first section that human self-understanding changing with time. Knowledge does deepen, but slavery has been a constant struggle over the entire history of man, and a homogenous approach to slavery as favourable is historically inaccurate.

    God Bless.

  10. “It is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person.” interfere spiritually? huh! “There are ecclesiastical rules and precepts that were once effective, but now they have lost value or meaning.” For who? Francis! “The Churches pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.” Doctrines now are unimportant? “When you express too much, you run the risk of being misunderstood”. Too little also applies with Francis.

  11. “When I went through my lung disease at the hospital, the doctor gave me penicillin and streptomycin in certain doses. The sister who was on duty tripled my doses because she was
    daringly astute; she knew what to do because she was with ill people all day. The doctor, who really was a good one, lived in his laboratory; the sister lived on the frontier and was in dialogue with it every day. Domesticating the frontier means just talking from a remote
    location, locking yourself up in a laboratory. Laboratories are useful, but reflection for us must always start from experience.”

    A denial of the authority of the Papacy?

  12. ““The young Catholic churches, as they grow, develop a synthesis of faith, culture and life, and so it is a synthesis different from the one developed by the ancient churches.”

    Really?

  13. Then the pope whispers in Latin: “I am a sinner, but I trust in the infinite mercy and patience of our Lord Jesus Christ, and I accept in a spirit of penance.”

    Did he really said this and why in Latin?

  14. felicitasperpetua

    “Thinking with the church, therefore, is my way of being a part of this people. And all the faithful, considered as a whole, are infallible in matters of belief (Is his job is being outsourced to India or something?), and the people display this infallibilitas in credendo through a supernatural (he surely means unnatural or preternatural) sense of the faith of all the people walking together (I’m visualizing hordes of ambulating zombies). This is what I understand today as the ‘thinking with the church’ (Yikes! IT’S THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING DEAD!!!)…”

    This papacy is starting to look like a low-budget horror movie.

    FP

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