One day, it has been said, the Church could consider the election of Francis invalid.
Beautiful, say I. Let us hope and pray that such a moment comes, no matter how far in the future, so that it is easier to excise all the poison of this guy from the body of the Church.
However, if such a day comes, it will be the day that the Church has made a decision. The Church; not a grumpy old man in the pew, or a blogger at his desk.
Nor can anybody say that, if the Church, one day, decides that Francis’ election was void, these grumpy old men and Keyboard Cardinals will be “proven right”.
They won’t. They would be just as wrong on that day as they are wrong now, because it is not for them to say “I told you so”. In fact, it is not for them to tell, full stop.
We are not at liberty to decide who is Pope, or whether the Pope is legitimate or not. That basic humility is required of a Catholic. We aren’t a Protestant mini-outfit where everybody decides which rules he adheres to, and three people can get together and create another mini-outfit with the rules they like.
If the Pope is a disgrace – this one is a huge disgrace; his successor, very likely, too – then it is our duty to say so, stick to what the Church has always taught, and deny obedience to such a disgraceful Pope in everything in which he goes against what the Church teaches.
We are no pope-makers. It is extremely arrogant, and very possibly gravely sinful, to think that we can decide who is Pope and who isn’t. The Church says that Francis is Pope. Even Benedict says that Francis is Pope. Not one single Cardinal denies to Francis the fact of life that he is the Pope.
The sun goes up in the East. Francis is Pope. Live with it.
We don’t decide who is Pope. We can – and should – pray for the return of worthy Popes in an authentically Catholic Church. We need to also understand that the horrible disfiguration of the Church we are living now is – as everything else – God-willed, and most likely a punishment for the sins of both the clergy and the laity. The solution is, then, not more arrogance but more humility.
Pray more. Do penance. Hope for a better day, but realise it might never come in your lifetime. Hope you will die believing in the Catholic teaching. Be faithful to the end, knowing that sixty-five generations of Catholics are on your side.
We are no Pope-makers.
It’s as simple as that.
Posted on September 29, 2022, in Catholicism, Conservative Catholicism, Traditional Catholicism and tagged Pope Benedict XVI, Pope Francis, Sedevacantism. Bookmark the permalink. 23 Comments.
St. Catherine of Siena lived with more than 1 pope appearing to be the Pontiff. As Catholics we have to be united to him. Well, since we can only be united to one, not two or more, we have to privately decide. We have have to shun heretics who have been publicly apprised of their heresy and have not answered, which is an actual answer. Silence brings scandal in such a situation.
In this case, the conflict is non existent, and invented by people’s vanity. Benedict agrees that Francis is Pope. So no, you are thinking you can privately decide who is Pope. You just can’t.
I would agree except to be saved I must be united to the Pontiff. How do I do so with this non Catholic idol worshipper? I cannot be united to an office but to a person holding that office. Benedict is of the opinion that the papacy can somehow be bifurcated.
“United to the Pontiff” does not mean to be glued to Francis. It means to accept that you are a Catholic and the Church is guided by the Pope. It means that you are in harmony with what that Church teaches. It does not mean that you have to *agree with that clown*.
As to Benedict, let me put it plainly: Benedict is a huge theological masturbator, and when he decided he was too much of a coward to keep doing his job he masturbated some more to try to save his face. But he wanted to abdicate, said so, and did so.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. This pontificate IS a punishment for our unfaithfulness in choosing to make friends with the modern world instead of converting it. What worse punishment can God inflict on us than to allow us to have everything all our own way, until we choke on it?
By the bye, I would be interested in your commentary on developments in the Ukraine war, the referendums (referenda?) and the destruction of the Nordstream pipelines.
“We aren’t a Protestant mini-outfit where everybody decides which rules he adheres to, and three people can get together and create another mini-outfit with the rules they like.”
JPII and Francis did just that with their arbitrary revisionism concerning capital punishment for murder, which not only violates Tradition but directly contradicts Scripture.
Yes. This is so simple. It is a shame that Catholics are so poorly instructed that they invent their own conclave. This also leads to the internal squabbles among the different groups: what year the papacy failed, who was the last true pope, which version of the missal must be used, etc. It’s exhausting to even look at their websites or listen to their debates.
I’m curious – is there anything this Pope has done to which you willingly assent and obey, which has advanced or merely sustained the Catholic Faith? And is there another Pope in history like this fellow, purely detrimental and poison to the Faith, deadly to souls?
Bergoglio the Evil Clown has been Pope for almost ten years. I’ve been reading your work for a long time, and I don’t remember one word of affection for “Holy Father”, admiration for an exhortation of his or even the use of any term of affection.
For me – it’s two visible Popes, first time in history against the clear revelation of Christ and two millennia of Sacred Tradition. But then there is that strange fact that for the first time in history a true Pope (not an anti-pope) is the agent of destruction of all that is holy, a devil worshipping sodomite promoting idolater.
Reality us what it is.
I didn’t conclude this as clearly as I could.
For me – only one Pope can occupy the Papal Office at a time. In the same way that you don’t require a permission slip from Cardinals to disregard every jot and tittle pronounced and proclaimed by this evil man since his elevation, and to call the man Evil Clown rather than Holy Father … in that same way I don’t require a formal declaration by Cardinals to confirm my own rational sense that Canon Law was quantifiably violated in the faux abdication, that two Popes is impossible, Emeritus Pope is outside Sacred Tradition, that the product of this
Frankenstein’s monster is the most destructive force in Church history – the fruit of the deformity us evil.
My SSPX Priest has confirmed it is fully permissible to have a firm conviction the named Pope is anti-Pope and remain within the Faith – I would say mandatory if in conviction of conscience. “Disagreements have happened before, and are not out of bounds”. As with Saints Bernard and Catherine of Siena (laywoman Third Order btw), the case cannot be made unless someone makes it.
You are not being a heretic. You are being a keyboard Cardinal. It is not a failure of theology, it’s a failure of arrogance and presumption. It is the old “mahhh conscience” stuff…
I have no sympathy for the man. I loathe him and consider him evil, and a danger to souls. Still, reality is what it is.
Do you really want comments on this, Mr Mundabor? I don’t think so. Your “appeal to authority” of a hierarchy (which you call “the Church”, as if the laity are not allowed to discern and are not part of “the Church”) infiltrated and screened in seminaries to select for homosexuals, marxists, and pedophiles, while denying that the laity has any right to discern or understand canon law, makes no sense. Why bother with Canon law, or even catechisms, if we are to simply swallow whatever the Woke hierarchy endorses? It puzzles me how you can be so correct on other issues but still consider a nonChristian, blaspheming, demon-worshipping, marxist heretic “pope”…even as Benedict ALSO refers to himself as pope.
It’s because I am obedient, and rooted in reality. Therefore, I accept *nothing* that does not coincide with what the Church has always maintained.
It does not mean deciding who is the Pope.
By the by. No, I wanted to close the comments on this post. I just couldn’t do it on my tablet.
We have an individual duty to be catechized in the Faith and defend it – which you generally do here on this blog. It is not presumptuous to know the Faith and defend it.
Just because the Cardinals want sodo-homo marriages does not compel us to accept them. And just because the Cardinals also gave us an expanded Petrine ministry with retired contemplative Popes does not compel us to accept that either. Truth governs (reality is what it is), not the will of heretical Cardinals. The Pope is *one*, not two+. That is the will of Christ, which is above the will of Cardinals.
Two options by Divine Revelation and Sacred Tradition: (1)Faithful to the end, die in Office. (2)Lay down the Papal Cross, abdicate and separate completely from Office.
Retire as Emeritus to the Vatican front porch is not an option. Christ did not give this permission. Nor does this exist in Sacred Tradition.
“Just because the Cardinals want sodo-homo marriages does not compel us to accept them”.
You do not accept (you refuse to obey to) what they say.
You don’t get to decide whether they are Cardinals. Or Benedict is in charge. Or Francis is pope. Or your cat is a male.
The SSPX pray for Pope Francis in the celebration of the Mass, That’s enough for me. We get the pope we deserve.
“You don’t get to decide … “
Correct. And I do not accept what they say in this case, either – that the Seat is vacant, when it is manifestly still occupied. And that there now are manifestly two Popes. – I don’t accept that either. Because that would not be Catholic. One Pope. Not two +. Cardinals cannot decide to impose non-Catholic change. I am not required to accept it.
This means that when benedict dies this fantasy will be at an end and you will decide that Francis is, now, Pope? And that the Church which was wrong in telling you who was pope then, is right now?
The issue I seriously grapple with is the idea that the Church, Divinely instituted, can lead souls to Hell. Pius VI stated that any calls for “liturgical reform” infer that the Catholic Church can provide a liturgy that is defective…which he says is impossible (he said this in Auctorem Fidei, which nullified the entirety of the Council of Pistoia). If the Church cannot give us a defective liturgy, then She cannot give us defective definitions, She cannot give us defective interpretations.
Mundabor, and others, presume that a pope, as pope, can lead souls to Hell. I am not sure previous pontiffs agree with with that. Cardinal Manning, in Vatican I, along with Card Newman, disagreed, for sure. Pius XII disagreed for sure. Pius X disagreed for sure. Part of the reason we are in this mess is that Archbishop Lefebvre disagreed with that (after all, he admitted he signed on to problematic documents of Vatican II–except those on ecumenism–because he believed Paul VI, as Pontiff, would prevent the Church from careening into error and thus lead souls to Hell).
As to the question if we can be attached to an office as opposed to a person , in the case of the Petrine Office, we can. The Office is Divinely instituted, and Divinely protected. The Council of Ephesus tells us that Peter himself speaks through the Office, and the Office itself is binding. When we attach ourselves to the Petrine Office, we attach ourselves to all previous occupants, not just the current “occupant”. We agree to obey their definitions as well.
Popes have been declared heretic in the past. Pope Honorius quote officially so.
Therefore, your premise does not stand. This applies to your last paragraph, too.
Nothing you say here can be proven at this time. You suspect as many do, but that is not enough for the faithful to declare an invalid pope. Even Pope Francis’ veiled support for heretical positions and his novelties are not enough for the faithful to declare his pontificate invalid. Such statements are in themselves prideful and dangerous to the faith. We are not competent to make such claims. A future pope and council, may do so. Mundabor, is correct in his post. Independence of mind in such matters is a Protestant disposition. It’s not the first time we have had a bad pope. Though, I think, rightly or wrongly, Francis is the worst, he is still the pope! I will continue to pray for him in the Mass and in my general prayers.